Sister Mary DeCock, BVM, Interview with David Cholewiak, 1998

Sister Mary DeCock, BVM reflects on her childhood in DeWitt, Iowa and her undergraduate experiences at Clarke College. Though Sister Mary describes herself as “not particularly attracted to religious life,” she took vows and joined the BVMs shortly after graduation. Sister Mary describes her involvement with a one-time ceremony at Mundelein in which she and others “affirmed the diaconate” of a fellow sister, Rose Marie Lorentsen. The ceremony was a “positive protest” to male only ordination. Sister Mary discusses her involvement with global justice activism and her embrace of liberation theology. She is especially passionate in her depiction of the Mundelein affiliation with Loyola and feels that it reflected a total lack of communication.

1998

Sister Mary DeCock, BVM was born in DeWitt, Iowa in 1923. Sister Mary was educated at Clarke College, Marquette University, and the University of Chicago. She was associated with Mundelein College for 43 years and served as a professor of religious studies and English- journalism, the director of public relations, and coordinator the Mundelein Weekend College. After Mundelein affiliated with Loyola University Chicago, Sister Mary was a professor and professor emerita at Loyola University from 1993-2005. Sister Mary passed away in DeWitt, Iowa in 2010.

Sister Mary DeCock, BVM
Interview with David Cholewiak, November 3, 1998
Chicago, IL
Time Log

Tape 1, Side A

0-5 minutes
Oral History Recording by David Cholewiak for the Mundelein Oral History Project.
DeCock was born in DeWitt, Iowa, in the Mississippi Valley at the corner of Lincoln Highway and Highway 61. Her grandparents came to Iowa not long after the Indian Wars.
When Mundelein merged with Loyola, DeCock went into Loyola’s theology department and continued to teach in the adult program or what had been known as the “Weekend College.”
5-10 minutes
Attended Clarke College in Iowa and become a member of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM). DeCock was influenced by the theology of the times. During that era, the priests, the nuns, and the brothers did the work of the church at that time. Was not particularly attracted to religious life.
10-15 minutes
Asserts that there used to be three paths for young women, religious life, married life, or “blessed singleness.” The last meant career women.
In the 19th century, nuns were important in building the church. Since Vatican II the theology has changed. Theology at this point does not look at religious life as a higher form of life, the split between laity and religious has dissolved. Technically, the sisters were always laity, there is no sacrament for nuns. The notion of perfection was set aside with Vatican II, and the first to get rid of it were nuns. Many were angry to see nuns get out of habit. If nuns changed and became like the laity, that unbalanced them a bit. ...A good many laywomen were angry.
15-20 minutes
After Vatican II, the sisters stepped out of their role.
Explains the “Ceremony of Affirmation” and the meaning of “positive protest.” Rose Marie Lorentzen was sent by the Jesuit Theological Seminary of Chicago’s south side (JSTC) into a program leading to ordination. She finished her diaconate, the second stage of ordination. She and members of her class were told that they could not be ordained to the diaconate. As a result, there were protests.
Corcoran lifted sections right out of the JSTC catalogue. Felt it was a misrepresentation.
At that time, DeCock was a regional representative for a group of sisters in Chicago. The group created a ceremony of affirmation for female deacons who were excluded from ordination. The ceremony took place in Wright Hall and the sisters invited the faculty of the JCST and Bill Thompson showed up. Thompson was on the faculty at Loyola and he was the only man who came.
20-25 minutes
The JCST felt that this was a misrepresentation of their catalogue.
Rose Marie Lorentzen felt that the affirmation confirmed her ministry. However, the ceremony made it very difficult for her to get a job. She ended up working with the homeless. Rose Marie runs the Hessed House in Aurora, Illinois, one of the biggest centers for the homeless in illinois.
At Mundelein, DeCock taught journalism and conducted public relations and development.
25-30 minutes
In 1957 DeCock became the chair of the journalism department and two years later, the head of public relations. From 1957-1966 DeCock ran the school newspaper, The Skyscraper. After that, Sister Sharon Rose took over the paper.
In 1961, Sister Ann Ida Gannon a new president, had a total new administrative team. The dean was Sister Ignatia, the dean of students was Sister Mary Assisium and Dan Cahill who came in as vice president for public relations. And Norbert Hruby who was vice president for research and development.
1961-1968 was a time of total educational revision for Mundelein college. Started with a continuing education program for adult women which Norbert Juby founded. Then Cathryn Byrne headed it.
In the 1960s, “institutional analysis” was put into place which amassed a great deal of data with questionnaires and measurements and so on. As a result, the curriculum was revised. Mundelein went from a two to three semester system.
Because of Vatican II and the Civil Rights movement, the school moved toward creating a religious studies major.
This shift moved DeCock toward the notion of moving from journalism to sociology.
DeCock got very involved in the Civil Rights movement and went to Alabama at the time of the MLK march. Russell Barta was the treasurer. Andrew Greeley suggested Social Ethics at the University of Chicago. DeCock interviewed and got into that program.
30-35 minutes
DeCock was the only nun in the program. It was a global program. Some joked that it was a program in search of a discipline. In 1967 DeCock started attending full time and studied social change in her own community.

Tape 1, Side B

0-5 minutes
DeCock made the transition from journalism into social ethics. She taught courses in sociology and religious studies while attending the University of Chicago (U of C).
DeCock did her dissertation on racism. She knew Jesse Jackson, who was a student at the Chicago Theological Seminary. DeCock said that the U of C included race discrimination in their program but not feminism or sex discrimination. It was different at Mundelein, where “feminism was alive and well.” DeCock quit the program at the U of C.
In 1974 the Weekend College began.
5-10 minutes
The leader of the group that went to Selma, Alabama was the academic dean of Mundelein, Sister Mary Ignatia who later left the BVM and took her own name, Mary Griffin. Eight faculty members went. The administration sanctioned it.
Feminism was built into the weekend college. DeCock was director of Religious Studies when Carol Frances Jegen went on sabbatical. Matthew Fox visited Mundelein and he was working toward feminism in his program.
David Orr was partnering in the community studies area and was supportive of feminism and with efforts to end racism.
In 1968 Mundelein had a landmark chapter that redesigned the goals of the community. The chapter organized a senate to make the decisions for the community.
10-15 minutes
DeCock’s interest in liberation theology grew out of a trip to South America and when she lived among the people there. DeClock went to Nicaragua because she wished to explore the Church there.
Joan Newheart formerly of the Loyola Computer Department, went to Nicaragua to teach. One of the workers for the Eighth Day Center for Justice went to Nicaragua, as did Chuck Dahm, a Dominican and now pastor of St. Pius Church, About fifteen went to Mexico, Nicaragua, Ecuador, and Peru for a study tour. Later took Mundelein graduate students to Nicaragua for another tour to work with Franciscan sisters. The Sandinistas had taken over and the group interviewed Ernesto Cardenal, Francesco Cardenal, and Miguel De Scotto, the priest who was the Secretary of State for the Sandinistas.
15-20 minutes
DeCock reflects on the history of Mundelein. She accompanied ex-president, Mary Griffin who had been a Mundelein student in the 1930s, then a teacher, then a dean and administrative head of the Weekend College, and involved with the Civil Rights Movement, to see what Mt. Carmel had to say about the foundations of Mundelein college. There, Griffin had a brain aneurysm and died. It was a painful experience.
20-25 minutes
Reflections on the history of Mundelein College:
DeCock uses different presidencies to define Mundelein college’s three distinct eras: 1. From Mundelein’s founding to 1957 when Ida Gannon came in. 2. Ida Gannon’s whole new Mundelein from 1957-1974. 3. 1974 when the Weekend college began which tipped the mission of the college toward adult students. Sister Mary DeCock was present for all three periods of the college’s history.
Reflections on Mundelein’s closure and affiliation with Loyola:
DeCock has strong feelings about the merger. Feels that the board was irresponsible. They had no expertise in higher education. Joe Sullivan stated that his two favorite charities were the refugees in Thailand and the BVMs at Mundelein. DeCock asserts that this was an insult to Mundelein.
25-30 minutes
DeCock asserts that Mundelein College was in financial trouble as a result of an appointment of a male president who ran the college into 2 million dollars of debt. There was a serious cash flow problem. There was not enough problem to declare a financial exigency. This is an instance when a college cannot support its faculty. Mundelein was never in that position. At the merger, it was valued at 65 million dollars.
DeCock was on the Board of Corporators, an elected position. They went to the board meetings but were never told about the merger. There was a total lack of communication.
The president of Loyola, the president of the Mundelein board of trustees, and one of the lawyers that was part of the Loyola team all went to Harvard Business School and attended the same class on mergers.
They gave away the college to Loyola. DeCock wants this in the archives because it has not been recorded.
The male president of Mundelein college who was hired to rejuvenate the college, John Reichert set programs in place that were not financially feasible and alienated the faculty. News of the merger was a shock.

Tape 2, Side A

0-5 minutes
The board of corporators was asked to go to DuBuque for a loan to help the college.
Many faculty felt that they were not informed and led astray in their thinking. Loyola did not realize that they were going to inherit 58 faculty members.
A vital institution for the education of women was lost. The Women and Gender Studies people at Loyola realized this.
The community was lost. The teaching at Mundelein grew out of this community.
Loyola is a red tape bureaucracy and they are the first to admit it. The addition of Mundelein faculty was threatening to some of the Loyola faculty.
Some of the younger faculty were helped because Loyola had more money.
5-10 minutes
Loyola gave rewards for publication, not for teaching. That said, Dean McCourt at Loyola did emphasize teaching. Mundelein students were vociferous at Loyola, As a result, one member of the faculty was not granted tenure.
If DeCock had known that she was moving to Loyola she would have finished the PhD. It would have been advantageous. But DeCock would not have changed this in light of her other accomplishments.
DeCock would have wanted Mundelein to put even more emphasis on adult education. This was more financially and educationally feasible than concentrating on 18-22 year olds.
10-15 minutes
Teaches one course each term at Loyola per term.

Mary DeCock 1998 Index

KEY
MD 1998 T1= Mary DeCock 1998 Interview Tape 1
MD 1998 T2= Mary DeCock 1998 Interview Tape 2

INDEX
1968, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Adult Education, MD 1998 T2 Side A 5-10
Alabama and the Martin Luther King March, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Assisium, Sister Mary, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Barta, Russell, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
“Blessed singleness,” MD 1998 T1 Side A 10-15
Board of Corporators, MD 1998 T1 Side B 25-30
Byrne, Cathryn, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Cardenal, Ernesto, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Cardenal, Francesco, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Ceremony of Affirmation, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
Chicago Theological Seminary, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5
Civil Rights Movement, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30, MD 1998 T1 Side B 15-20
Clarke College, MD 1998 T1 Side A 5-10
Dahm, Chuck, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
DeScotto, Miguel, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
DeWitt, Iowa, MD 1998 T1 Side A 0-5
Diaconate, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
DuBuque, MD 1998 T2 Side A 0-5
Ecuador, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Eighth Day Center for Justice, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Feminism, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Financial Exigency, MD 1998 T1 Side B 25-30
Fox, Matthew, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Franciscan Sisters, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Gannon, Ann Ida, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Greeley, Andrew, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Griffin, Mary, MD 1998 T1 Side B 15-20, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Habit, MD 1998 T1 Side A 10-15
Harvard Business School, MD 1998 T1 Side B 25-30
Hessed House, Aurora, Illinois, MD 1998 T1 Side A 20-25
Ignatia, Sister Mary, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Indian Wars, MD 1998 T1 Side A 0-5
Jegen, Carol Francis, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Jesse Jackson, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5
Jesuit Theological Seminary of Chicago (JSTC), MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
Journalism Department, Mundelein College, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Juby, Norbert, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Liberation Theology, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Lorentzen, Rose Marie, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20, MD 1998 T1 Side A 20-25
Loyola Computer Department, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Loyola University Chicago, MD 1998 T1 Side B 25-30
Loyola University Chicago faculty, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
Loyola University Chicago Theology Department, MD 1998 T1 Side A 0-5
Loyola Women and Gender Studies, MD 1998 T2 Side A 0-5
McCourt, Kathleen, MD 1998 T2 Side A 5-10
Mexico, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Mount Carmel, MD 1998 T1 Side B 15-20
Mundelein Affiliation, MD 1998 T1 Side B 20-25
Mundelein Continuing Education, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Mundelein Eras, MD 1998 T1 Side B 20-25
Mundelein Institutional Analysis, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Newheart, Joan, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Nicaragua, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Ordination, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
Orr, David, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Peru, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Public Relations, Mundelein College, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Race Discrimination, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5
Reichert, John, MD 1998 T1 Side B 25-30
Religious Studies, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Rose, Sharon, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Sandinistas, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Selma Campaign, MD 1998 T1 Side B 5-10
Sex Discrimination, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5
Sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM), MD 1998 T1 Side A 5-10
South America, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
St. Pius Church, MD 1998 T1 Side B 10-15
Sullivan, Joe, MD 1998 T1 Side B 20-25
The Skyscraper, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30
Thompson, Bill, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
University of Chicago, MD 1998 T1 Side A 25-30, MD 1998 T1 Side A 30-35, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5
Vatican II, MD 1998 T1 Side A 10-15, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20
Weekend College, MD 1998 T1 Side A 0-5, MD 1998 T1 Side B 0-5, MD 1998 T1 Side B 15-20
Wright Hall, MD 1998 T1 Side A 15-20

The materials contained on this portal are freely available for scholarship, or non-commercial research under the “fair use” provisions of US copyright law. Prior written permission is required for any use that exceeds “fair use” including publication, broadcast, for placing on another web site, or for any paid or commercial use.